Comments on: The Dam Bursts

By: That was the Y2K that wasn’t « Fourcultures

That was the Y2K that wasn’t « Fourcultures — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:01:56 +0000

[...] For a fourcultures take on this kind of thing, see The Dam Bursts. [...]

By: TerjeP (say tay-a)

TerjeP (say tay-a) — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:04:19 +0000

I have sacrificed in the name of a greater cause. At personal cost I have participated in Australias embryonic freedom movement. It has cost me money, time and on occasion it has impacted on precious relationships. It may be irrational if the self is defined extremely narrowly but I don’t know anybody that actually believes that, at least not based on revealed preferences. Those libertarians that I know (and it is quite a number these days) that you might call individualists, or who want a culture you might call individualism, are not narrow people.

The essence of individualism is the locus of sovereignty not the nature of participation. Individualism says that individuals should be free from coercion except in circumstances of self defence. It doesn’t mean we should operate alone or that we should be uncharitable. And it makes no generalised exception towards state based coercion (although usually some specific concessions in practice).

I think culture is extremely important to understanding the nature of both individuals and society in general. However in my view it seems that you are not really demonstrating an understanding of individualism.

On a separate note I think your blog should have some form of comment log on the main page. That way returning visitors can know where the ongoing dialogue is happening. After all we are social animals.

By: fourcultures

fourcultures — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 06:45:58 +0000

Thanks Terje – and welcome! You’re right of course. The locus of the four cultures isn’t really in the individual. This is a social theory about social patterns, not a psychological theory about people’s brains (although there is clearly a link since people’s brains build the social structures). The dam burst as an illustration fails to make this clear, I realise. I’ve depicted the cultures as individual responses, when really they should be seen as social structures that encourage people to behave like this. For instance, the hierarchical actor would benefit greatly from a pre-existing context that has already identified the village’s ‘chain of command’. You notice that the Individualist escaped by car. This might be seen as an example of an Individualist technology encouraging an Individualist culture (driving-as-freedom).
I’d like to comment on one thing you said: ‘we should be free to defend our life and property.’ There are many examples of situations where people have sacrificed both in the service of a ‘greater’ cause. The theory of Four Cultures helps explain how this could be ‘rational’, even when many would see it as ‘irrational’.

By: TerjeP (say tay-a)

TerjeP (say tay-a) — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 05:02:40 +0000

Perhaps we all operate in one of these four ways but I don’t think any of us are so caught up in any single mode to be incapable of seeing the merits of the other. If you’re a member of a gang that is turning violent you may decide to “go your own way”. If you are trying to build a new company for personal profit you may see merit in a collective effort. There is a time and a place for working with those around you and a time and a place for taking a solo stand. Is the individual who agrees to lead a group acting on their individuality or on their collectivist instincts?

For me the major issue in regards to the bursting dam is should we be free to decide how we defend our life and property. In other words the means are (in my book at least) of primary consideration. Should we decide freely or should we be forced into a given course of action. If you or I wish to leave on my our own should we be forced to stay and help? Or if I want to stay and defend the villiage should I be forced to leave for my own safety?

Life is about both means and ends. Both freedom and utility. I want people to be free to find utility. Not unfree so they can be utilised.